He Seems Like a Sovereign Grace Guy
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT
Benjamin Kreps:
Hey everyone, and welcome to the podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our Executive Director. Mark, as you are well aware — and many who check out the podcast are also aware — over the years, in fact probably the 18 years I've been in Sovereign Grace, I've heard the term used to describe someone as a "Sovereign Grace guy." Is he a Sovereign Grace guy? He's a real Sovereign Grace guy. Which might be a familiar term to some, but really needs some definition. There's a reason why we use that kind of language. And you want to talk about that?
Mark Prater:
I do. It's a phrase I use when I'm meeting a pastor not a part of Sovereign Grace and I think, "Man, he seems like a Sovereign Grace guy." Or new people come to our church and you get to know them a little bit, and it seems like they've always been in Sovereign Grace — "You're a Sovereign Grace person." It's a wonderful phrase. I think it's a very endearing phrase. And what it communicates is a heart from a person who loves their local Sovereign Grace church and loves our family of churches.
So this episode is not about trying to do away with the term — but it is to raise an awareness of its use, because I think at times it just does need definition. For example, recently — and I mean the last few years — what I hear from our pastors and what they're seeing in their churches is that there are a lot of new people coming to our churches who've never heard of Sovereign Grace before. So we can use that language and that lingo, and they have no idea what it means. In other words, it needs definition.
And then secondly, it's not just about helping them understand — it's also making sure we're not communicating some sort of exclusivity, but rather, when you define it, what it means is that it describes something we see in Scripture. In particular, gospel centrality. So I just think it's something we have to be aware of. It's an endearing term, but keep in mind when it needs to be defined and explained for people to understand.
Benjamin Kreps:
Amen. Without an understanding that it actually means something significant, it's insider-ish. It can be exclusionary — maybe even come off as a bit elitist, unless it's explained. Are you one or aren't you? Are you born one? Is it just in the air — do you pick it up somehow? Is it contagious? No. So let's talk about it more. What does it mean when we talk about someone being a Sovereign Grace guy or gal?
Mark Prater:
I think at the nub of it, what it really means is that this is a person who has been saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ, has a great appreciation for the gospel of Jesus Christ, and wants to live out that gospel in their life. What I'm talking about is a gospel focus — a gospel centrality — in their life.
You could go to several passages to describe what it means to be a Sovereign Grace person. One of those would be Colossians chapter 1. I'm not going to read the entire passage, but verses 15 through 23 discuss the preeminence of Jesus Christ — some of my favorite passages of Scripture. I'm going to start in verse 17:
"He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of the cross. And you, who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel."
Not shifting from the hope of the gospel — there's a gospel focus and a gospel centrality in a person's life. They want to know: how do I not shift from that hope in my parenting, in my marriage, in how I live as a single person, in how I conduct myself in the workplace? There are gospel connections throughout their lives. So I think that's the main thing it means. And keep in mind, ultimately what it means is that you want to live for the glory of Christ — because He is the one who is preeminent and He is the one who has saved each of us. So it's a person who has a gospel focus and wants to live for the glory of Christ. That's the center of it.
But also, when we use that term, we're talking about a theological like-mindedness — a theological compatibility — and that's really captured in our statement of faith. Someone can read that and say, "Hey, I could be a part of that church." But it's also that we pull out some unique aspects of our theology that we want to mark our churches, and that's found in our seven shared values. Things like reformed theology, gospel-centered doctrine and preaching — we just talked about gospel centrality. Things like continuationism — a continuationist pneumatology. Complementarian, elder-led churches. We're committed to church planting, outreach, and evangelism to reach the lost with the gospel. And we're united in fellowship, governance, and mission. Those are the seven shared values. And there can be people who come wanting that reformed theology and continuationist use of gifts — and that's a wonderful example of who could be a Sovereign Grace person. So those are a few thoughts that I think describe that person.
Benjamin Kreps:
Well, that's helpful, but it's also not quite getting our arms totally around what we mean by that term. To be sure, it has nothing to do with personality types, introverts or extroverts, ethnicity, or geographic location. There are Sovereign Grace guys and gals all over the world that we encounter, and what a joy it is to do so. It has to do as well with what that gospel centrality you talked about produces in the life of the folks who are part of our churches. Because the truth is, you can hold to our seven shared values in some sort of mental agreement — maybe you even have some theological expertise in those things — and yet not actually fit in culturally with the happy experience of what it means to be a part of this church. It's not confined to Sovereign Grace, but it's a culture we've enjoyed for many years and want to see perpetuated — because it's not a denominational culture, actually. It's something much more significant and deeper. So talk a little bit more about what this means in the experience of living together in Sovereign Grace.
Mark Prater:
It's really well said. You can see this — it's not just head knowledge or theological knowledge, as you said. As you get to know a person, it's their heart, it's the way they live their life. And what you see is really the fruit of the gospel worked out in their lives. And that can be found in a believer's life regardless of where they live in the world, regardless of what denomination they're in. So the things I'm going to mention are not exclusive to Sovereign Grace — but we want them to distinctly mark our churches, because we want that gospel fruit in our lives.
It's really captured in our seven shaping virtues. You encounter in a person: humility — genuine humility. Joy — there can be sorrow in their life, but they're always rejoicing. Gratitude — they're just grateful people. Encouragement — they encourage others and they see the work of grace in others and point it out. Generosity — people who find great joy in just being generous. Servanthood — they just want to serve in the church and serve outside the church. And then godliness — just wanting to grow and become more like Christ. All of that is the fruit of the gospel that affects a culture. As you said, this is not a denominational thing — it's not a denominational culture. It's a gospel culture that can be found in any denomination. But we want it here in Sovereign Grace. And I think that's the other thing the term means.
Benjamin Kreps:
It's something we're purposefully and proactively going after. It really is just seeking to live with integrity — where what we believe is integrated with how we live, perfectly only by the grace of God, but sincerely. In other words, New Testament Christianity is what we're after. And as you said, this is not ultimately about Sovereign Grace. We have not been put here on this earth to build a brand — and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in Sovereign Grace who would want to identify what we're doing that way. We would be allergic to that kind of thing. There is a much higher purpose. That is our passion. Let's end this episode with some thoughts about that.
Mark Prater:
One of those — and this is penultimate, not the ultimate — is that we want to continue to advance the gospel of Jesus Christ through church planting, through outreach, through evangelism, because we want more people to know the good news. Those who are now alienated — to know they've been reconciled through the blood of Christ by placing their faith in Him. So our church planting efforts and our outreach efforts are not to build Sovereign Grace — they're not about that at all. They are to reach people who, just like we once were, didn't know Christ — so that they can hear the good news of Jesus Christ.
And as we do all that, the ultimate is that we would do it all for the glory of Christ, because He's the one who died on that cross and paid for our sins. So we want to continue to preach Christ crucified, and we want to continue to be held by that truth. It's that "hold fast" theme that Ricky Alcantar has presented to us and that we're embracing. It really captures what we're about: we want to preach Christ and Him crucified, for the glory of Christ, for the good of the gospel, to reach the lost — and again, for the glory of Christ.
Benjamin Kreps:
Wonderful. And that is just the thrust of what we read when we open up the New Testament — that we want to live lives for the glory of the One who has loved us and given His life for us. And as we live that out, Jesus talks about in John 13 and 17 that all people will know we are disciples of Jesus by our love for one another, and the world will come to know that the Son was sent by the Father because of the unity that others observe. And so the love and the unity that we experience as we seek to be Sovereign Grace people — in the way we've described it — is a fundamental part of our mission together as we seek, individually and corporately, to glorify Jesus.
So I think this is a great topic to talk about. I really appreciate your thoughts, Mark. Hopefully this serves those who are thinking about what "Sovereign Grace" means. As we were talking before we came on, I have used the term before — that someone is very "Sovereign Gracey" — with another Sovereign Grace pastor, and it was useful shorthand because they nodded their head and immediately knew what I was talking about. And it's just so much of what you were describing. So thank you, Mark. Thank you everyone for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.