The Benefits of Extra Local Counsel
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT
BENJAMIN KREPS:
Hey everyone and welcome to the Mark Prater podcast - where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our executive director.
Mark, a couple of weeks ago, you were at the leadership team retreat. We talked about it in the last episode and dedicated it to everything that happened there. As we mentioned, you spent some time with the regional leaders in the first half of that retreat. You also led a teaching session at the retreat on the benefits of additional local wisdom, because we do have wonderful regional leaders in our polity, and they are a gift to us.
One of the main gifts that they provide to our regions is an outside voice, a voice of wisdom to help pastors as we seek to be faithful in local churches. So why don't you share your thoughts with us? We weren't at the retreat, so give us a peek into the teaching that you did.
MARK PRATER:
I would love to— I wanted to wait until after the retreat to devote an episode to this topic. But I think it's important, which is why we're devoting an episode to it.
You mentioned regional leaders. As I mentioned in the last episode, we just thank God for them. Actually, the BCO gives them a specific responsibility—giving advice, as the wording in the BCO states. If you look at the regional leader responsibilities, obviously, provide wise counsel.
That's a biblical principle, that we all need wisdom and counsel from others, from an abundance of counselors. In the case of local churches and local elderships, we need counsel from outside our church and our eldership, which is one of the roles regional leaders play.
The reason I think it's a biblical principle can be found throughout the wisdom literature, but let me read two verses that illustrate it. Proverbs 24:5-6: "A wise man is full of strength, and a man of knowledge enhances his might. For by wise guidance, you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory."
The word "war" in Proverbs 24:6 can be interpreted literally or metaphorically. It's not just military engagement. It includes any trial or challenge we face in this life, including the trials and challenges—and even the test of success—that I think all churches face throughout their history.
So, for pastors to lead their churches effectively, we need wise counsel from those outside our pastoral team and our church. The wisdom literature throughout the Bible assumes that we can't get wisdom in isolation. We just can't have all the wisdom we need independently. We need wisdom that comes from God, and he gives it to us through his word and through an abundance of counselors.
Every one of us needs wisdom, and we need input from others. We can't have wisdom on our own, in isolation. What the text really assumes in those two verses is that to get wisdom is to assume humility and community. It assumes those two things—the sense that we recognize our own limitations, our own abilities, that none of us are omniscient in that sense.
Therefore, we need to ask—just the humble asking. And not just the asking, but actually applying the counsel that you've been given, which I think requires humility as well. But it assumes community. It assumes you have an abundance of counselors you trust and go to, and that you know they are helpful.
I just think about my last 13 years leading Sovereign Grace, and I don't know what I would do without an abundance of counselors. First of all, the men on the leadership team who have consistently given me wise counsel over the years, the men on the executive committee who have given me wise counsel, CJ talking with me, and the many others who have given me wise counsel. Even—I mentioned this to our regional leaders—our regional leaders have given me wise counsel. Our pastors have given me wise counsel that has only helped me in leading Sovereign Grace.
I'm more aware than I ever have been—maybe because as you get older, you realize, man, I got more limitations than I thought I had when I was younger. But you can be in abundance of counselors. I think it's so important, which is why I taught on it, and why our pastors could benefit from it.
BENJAMIN KREPS:
Yeah, I've been around for a little while, and so I've been in multiple regions and had a number of different regional leaders over the years. And it has been such a gift. I have specific moments I can remember from sitting down with a regional leader and benefiting from their counsel, input, and care.
Let's drop down another level into what you taught here. Why don't you share with us what you see as being some of the benefits of receiving counsel from outside a local church?
MARK PRATER:
Yeah, if you just read through the wisdom literature in scripture, it's full of the benefits of seeking counsel and then actually acting on that counsel and taking it to heart, applying it. I'm just going to talk about three, very briefly, just for the sake of our podcast.
The first one—the first benefit—is establishing wise plans. Proverbs 20 verse 18 says, "Plans are established by counsel; by wise guidance wage war." Again, the war language is there in Proverbs 20—again, not just literally, but metaphorically. So there are challenges that pastors face. There are new opportunities that pastors face. There's growth that pastors face. There are building projects that pastors face. There are pastoral situations where we don't know what to do. For all of those things, we need to establish wise plans.
It's very clear from the wisdom literature that you establish wise plans with the help of counsel from an abundance of counselors. I just think that that really does serve the church when we recognize our need. Wise pastors will ask for wise counsel from those around them, those outside of their team. I always say, start with your regional leader, but talk to other pastors in your region as well. And again, that's why I believe the role of the regional leader is so important in Sovereign Grace, because one of the things they're tasked to do is to give that counsel. That's the first benefit. You establish wise plans.
Secondly is safety. There's safety. Proverbs 11:14 says, "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety." There's quite a contrast in that one verse in Proverbs 11:14. It's clear and it's striking. No guidance, no counsel—a people fall, the church falls. But with an abundance of counselors, there is safety. There's safety for the church, there's safety for the pastoral team, there's safety—can be in some cases even safety for Sovereign Grace, depending on the situation.
So I just want—when you get outside counsel, I just think it helps protect you and it helps provide safety, not only for you and your team, but for your church as well.
The third benefit, the last one I'll mention just very briefly, is what Proverbs 24:6 says. It says that in abundance of counselors, there is victory. So there's the benefit of victory. What I mean by that word is biblical success, success as biblically defined. That only comes through an abundance of counselors. I just believe the Lord rewards that kind of humility—to ask for and apply that counsel—because Proverbs 22:4 says, "The reward for humility and the fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life." God just blesses that kind of humility.
So those are just a few of the benefits of extra local wisdom. There are many more, but I think those are clear and can be really helpful to pastoral teams.
BENJAMIN KREPS:
Excellent. You know, I think everybody listening to or reading this would say "amen." I think that, if asked on a test to affirm what you just taught, every Sovereign Grace pastor would pass. And yet, in real time and in real life, in the heat of challenges in a local church, sometimes a guy can find a reluctance to go after that kind of counsel and wisdom, and to get it from extra local guys—from the regional leaders—and then to apply it.
Mark, talk to us about our heart posture. You mentioned humility. Talk a little bit more about that—when it comes to positioning ourselves in a God-glorifying way in order to benefit from this gift of wisdom and counsel from others.
MARK PRATER:
Yeah, I mean, first I start with my own heart. I see this in my own heart—reasons why I might not seek extra local counsel, reasons why I might not benefit from an abundance of counselors. I talked with the regional leaders—I actually had six of these, but I'm only going to mention one just for the sake of our podcast.
But I think one of the things, I would say that the main thing that keeps us from asking for help and asking for wisdom is being wise in our own eyes. It's a self-confidence, or an exaggerated self-confidence, or it's an over-confidence—you might use that language as well. I define being wise in your own eyes as a self-confidence in your own instincts, and you trust them more, you believe they're more accurate, even when contradictory information is present. And extra local wisdom that steers you a different way is there. That is the kind of self-confidence I'm talking about. That's being wise in your own eyes.
And scripture—one of the things I love about scripture is it speaks plainly and directly at times. The wisdom literature basically is very direct—it's foolish. To be wise in your own eyes: foolish. Proverbs 12 verse 15 says, "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice."
If you remember Jeff Purswell's sermon on zeal a couple of years ago—three years ago maybe, at the Pastor's Conference—he had a wonderful phrase in that sermon. He said, it talked about the cooling effects of competence upon our zeal. That's what he's talking about. You remember that? And I just want to take that phrase and—give Jeff credit for this—paraphrase it and apply it here: the cooling effects of competence on seeing our need for wisdom and an abundance of counselors.
Now, let me clarify that. I've got to be very competent. I'm not dissing competence at all. We need competent pastors. And I've got to be very confident. I would say all Sovereign Grace pastors are competent. But competence can breed self-confidence in the absence of humility. That's what can happen. And so it really comes down to an issue of humility.
Jon Payne said, "If you can't tell the difference between self-competency and self-confidence, you're going to get yourself in trouble." And I thought that was really, really well said. I think that's the biggest thing. I see it in my own heart. I think I'm right. I think my instincts are right—all along, they're not. I needed help getting counsel, or realizing I don't. I think that's what gets in our way, and I think that's what keeps us from benefiting from extra local counsel, especially that of the regional leader. And not just hearing it, not just asking for it and hearing it, but actually doing it.
BENJAMIN KREPS:
Yeah, I mean, in no way are you meaning to communicate that the regional leaders are infallible sources of perfect wisdom or anything like that. But they are a gift to us, to be accessed, used, and benefited from. And in our polity, I think that's part of the wisdom of our polity, to have those guys and their service in this way.
What do you recommend a pastor do to apply all of this encouragement so that they can benefit from the gift of extra local leadership? Maybe a guy has been reluctant to just reach out, connect, hear some input—some recommendations?
MARK PRATER:
Yeah, I've got several. I'm going to limit it to just a few for time's sake.
Here's the first one. Here's what I want to do in Sovereign Grace. I want to create a culture of asking for wisdom. Create a culture of asking for wisdom.
And I think there are some ways to do that. First of all, create a culture of asking for wisdom by recognizing your need for it and counsel—that we can't completely trust our own competence or instincts.
Let me illustrate that with a quote from Charles Bridges. He was actually making a comment on King Solomon's prayer, right? When he first becomes king, he prays and asks for wisdom. Here's what Charles Bridges says about that. He says, "His conscious ignorance"—stop there, that's a great phrase—"conscious ignorance is the first principle of knowledge. 'I am but a little child,' said the wisest of men, and this humility of wisdom was the establishment of his kingdom." Oh, that's a great quote. So let us just be humble men. Let's have conscious ignorance in our lives. And let's create this culture of asking for wisdom.
Another thing I'd recommend you do in creating that culture is to have a company of counselors for every lead pastor, or at least every pastoral team. Now, John Calvin needed his company of pastors around Geneva. We in Sovereign Grace need a company of counselors around us. So create that—put names on a list, even —and I hope the regional leader is near the top of that list, whether men in your region or outside it, and just utilize those men.
Third recommendation: ask for counsel. Just when you face different things and you think, "I think my instincts are pretty good on this, and so I should do it," but let me run it by someone—just to see if there's any other counterintuitive thought that might lead in the other direction. All of that can be really beneficial.
Let's have conscious ignorance. Let's have a company of counselors. And let us ask for wisdom. That will create a culture of seeking wisdom at Sovereign Grace.
BENJAMIN KREPS:
Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes—and I can understand a guy feeling sort of protective and thinking about stuff going on in the church and maybe feeling that reluctance to bring others in, for whatever reason. There could be a number of different reasons. But I appreciate your encouragement because, really, what you're encouraging us to do is tap into all the benefits God says are on the other side of this counsel. And if humility is needed, and it often is, knowing that there's a promise as well—that God gives grace to the humble.
Do you want more grace in your ministry and leadership and as you care for folks in the new year? I know I do. And so humbling ourselves, positioning ourselves as those who want to learn and receive from others—we're just in a wonderful place, whatever appearances might be or whatever we might be concerned about. We're walking the way God wants us to as pastors when we're conducting ourselves that way.
Thank you, Mark, for your encouragement and your counsel. You are a man I've benefited from—your counsel, many, many times over the years.
You know, it also occurs to me as well—wisdom is a gift. That must not be taken for granted. We talked back a few weeks ago, and I mentioned, as the weeks go by, I think about our friend Ken Mellinger and his wise counsel I certainly benefited from so many times over almost 20 years. And that voice is not here anymore. And I miss that voice of wisdom.
So it just reminds me—let's take advantage of the gifts that God has given to us in our partnership, which includes the wisdom of these men who are serving us so well. So thank you, Mark, for your input and your counsel and encouragement. Thank you all for checking out the podcast. We'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.