The Pastoral Epistles

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Mark Prater Podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of Sovereign Grace churches with our Executive Director.

Mark, it's good to see you. It's Saturday morning, and I just saw you all last week — because we just returned, as we're recording this, from the Pastors College. And what a week it was. The Pastors College is a wonderful gift to our family of churches. And the greatest gift of the Pastors College, I would suggest, is the dean, Jeff Purswell, who once again reminded us that he is unmistakably a generous gift from God to Sovereign Grace.

It was commented on a number of times over the week: How did we get Jeff in our little family of churches? Because last week on the Pastoral Epistles was profoundly helpful, as usual. But so many of us were affected because there were so many of us there. So, Mark, talk about your experience there — talk about what the week was really about and why it was significant for 97 men in attendance at the Pastors College last week.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, it was a wonderful week for a number of different reasons. The class was dedicated to the Pastoral Epistles — that Jeff has taught for the very first time — just to remind our listeners, or those who read the transcript, the Pastoral Epistles are First and Second Timothy and the letter to Titus as well.

And they are written to pastors. That's the primary audience. Although every Christian will benefit from reading those three books, or those three letters, they're important for the pastor in particular, because when you read those letters, they are very much life-shaping. They will shape you as a pastor as well.

And it's sort of underneath that overall intention that there are a number of things related to leadership in the church — the structure of the church, pastoral issues, how to lead in a crisis, how to think about correcting your opponents with gentleness, as you see there in Second Timothy chapter two, for example — and so many other things. So it's very important in terms of not only bringing order to the church, but bringing good leadership to the church. And obviously that includes, and primarily includes, the pulpit. Jeff made that point throughout the week. You see that in the Pastoral Epistles. Certainly, this charge — he charges Timothy in the presence of God to preach the Word — that is the steering wheel of the church, as Charles Spurgeon has said. So it was very important, which was why I was so glad. Not only was the current PC class there, obviously, but there were over thirty more pastors of various seasons of pastoral ministry who were all there, eager to learn. And we all did. So it was a very fruitful week.

It was a very important week. And just thank God for Jeff. And you could tell the hard way he worked to put this material together. He taught it with zeal and with precision and with a pastoral element to it that was just outstanding.

Benjamin Kreps:

Agreed. There's no one quite like Jeff when it comes to teaching of this sort. Why don't you talk about — for those who haven't gone to PC class, maybe haven't heard Jeff teach — talk about your experience of the effect of sitting under Jeff's teaching, in large part in order to whet the appetite, perhaps, for some others to come and join us at future classes that Jeff teaches?

You mentioned he's a pastor — he teaches as a pastor. He is a scholar, no doubt. But he is a pastor-scholar. So talk about the effect of sitting under Jeff.

Mark Prater:

Yeah. And I hope this is a reminder to all Sovereign Grace pastors to get to PC class on a regular basis, because you will benefit. And I would say if you're going to choose one of Jeff's classes, that doesn't mean you wouldn't benefit from others — just getting to the service is very, very important. So look at the curriculum and choose one. But Jeff is very much a unique gift. As you just said, he is. He teaches with theological precision. I was reminded of that again this week. But he's not just an academic. He's a pastor.

And that is a unique gift to our family of churches — a pastor-theologian who is a pastor in a Sovereign Grace church and understands who we are. That's just a very unique thing. And some of the ways that he just impacted me this week is, first of all, his own relationship with the Lord. It comes through. He was saying things like: don't step, don't step into your pulpit until, first of all, you've been with the Lord — and you know that you've come before the Lord and you've engaged him, and you've asked for forgiveness, and you've experienced forgiveness, and you've been reminded of your justification before a holy God because of what Christ has done for you, as a son of God.

That's so his relationship with the Lord — it's very inspiring. It's probably not too much to say. But it's not just that. It's the engagement with God's Word. So don't step into the pulpit until you've been with the Lord and you've just allowed this text to deeply impact you and affect you. You're not just up there communicating information. You are communicating God's words. And it will be most effective if it has affected you first, as a pastor. So I was just very affected by that. And that came through. There were certain points during the week where there was some material he taught, and there was real passion that was there. That was another reminder for all preachers.

People pick up on what you're passionate about. They walk away and they say, "He really cares about that" — and they should too. So I think he communicated that in a very effective way. He also communicated his heart for Sovereign Grace pastors throughout the week. I mean, he knows those students. He's with them throughout the year. But he knows many of those pastors that were in that room, whether they went to the PC or not. He knows about their wives. He knows their families. He knows what is going on in their lives. He regularly prays for them. And so that's the heart that comes through — that you're not going to just capture, you're not going to have that same heart from just anybody teaching.

He is a Sovereign Grace pastor who loves Sovereign Grace pastors. And so those are just some of the things that affected me. And of course, one of everything would say — his precision with the word of God and how he draws out certain texts at a level, a deep level, that I just can't do on my own.

Yeah, I'm just very much affected by that. Let me say one other thing, okay? Just thought this — obviously Paul wrote these three letters, two of them to Timothy and one to Titus. And it's very clear that Jeff has spent a lot of time studying Paul. And he speaks about Paul in ways like you just did with him — like you know him. You know him? In a way that I don't feel like I know Paul. So I was very challenged by Jeff's example in that area as well. Along with those things I just mentioned. So just some of the ways that we uniquely benefit from Jeff. Well, what would you add to that, Ben?

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I — you know, Dr. Carson has said and written that in his many years teaching at seminary, more is caught by his students than what is taught. Or in other words, his passion — what he's most passionate about, like you said — is something incredibly valuable that's transferred to the generations that are sitting in class like that. And necessary, because Jeff's greatest passion is the Lord Jesus Christ. 

And so that is transferred even throughout all of the teaching. There is nothing wooden about the teaching. And so we are not only catching Jeff's passion — that's being transferred to us — but having said that, I don't want to minimize the teaching and the content of that teaching. So talk about the content of what was taught last week and the effect of that content.

Mark Prater:

I mean, there's so much you could go into in terms of content. Yeah. So I'm just going to pull out a few highlights. The first one that comes to mind is on Wednesday morning he did a section in First Timothy chapter one that was really a message on gospel centrality. And I've read a few commentaries on the Pastoral Epistles — I have never heard it, never read a commentary that would make the comments that Jeff made. First of all, and I've heard it taught — I've never heard it taught like that before. So it just had this profound effect. There were men in the room while he was preaching that you could hear weeping. Yeah. Because of how he was laying before us the glories of Christ through what he has accomplished in the gospel, and how important that is for pastors personally — as disciples of Christ, as husbands, as fathers, as grandfathers — but certainly as a pastor and preacher.

And I was just deeply impacted. Yes. So there was that particular section of the week that stood out. I think the other thing — it's just sort of categories that come to mind — is that he often talked about leadership and leadership in various contexts. Leadership in crisis. And one of the points he was making is that these character qualifications that you see in First Timothy chapter three and Titus chapter one are certainly what you need to see in a man before you ordain him. But they remain important in a pastor for the rest of his life — not only because they point to godliness, but also because you need those qualities in leadership. So in leadership in a crisis, you need to be sober-minded and self-controlled — just to pull out a couple of those characteristics that he talked about. So that was just really, really helpful to hear.

The other thing is, I would say the overall effect on me is his example — as we mentioned earlier, regarding preaching — I was challenged as a preacher that I would preach with greater zeal and passion for how the text has affected me, and with greater precision that is seen not only in the exegesis of the text, but in the application for the hearer of the text as well. I could say many, many other things, but those were some of the highlights for me. How did it affect you?

Benjamin Kreps:

I agree. And the one thing that you mentioned really stuck out to me. It is hard to just talk about a couple of things. There were so many. But that godliness — that's presented as necessary for the pastor — first off, his teaching on what godliness is. That was the price of admission. Worth the price of admission right there.

But those qualities — he stressed them repeatedly. They're not a bar to be cleared in order to be ordained. They're not a sort of static possession. There's something that needs to be cultivated and grown, and we need to be daily engaging with God and stirring up the gifts that he's given us. The gift of the Spirit, and the gifts that we have because of having the Spirit — when it comes to pastors and that whole constellation of godly qualities of a devoted life. He talked about the qualifications for an elder — the ones that we typically go to — and noted that that's not an extensive or exhaustive list.

Right. And he talked at length about how there's actually not just qualifications, but a whole lifestyle — from when we wake to when we go to sleep at night — that we are called to embrace as pastors. Jeff has a way of talking very honestly and straightforwardly about the challenges and the heartache of pastoral ministry. And you feel it deeply. Just found myself at times thinking, yeah, don't just sit and wallow in my misery about the challenges. And so don't sit around thinking about that. But to be able to honestly say, yes, this is a hard task that we're called to — and then accompanied with that was just greater inspiration and encouragement from the Scriptures to press on.

I just left there aware of my deficiencies and need, and more excited than I can remember for what we have in the gospel — in Christ — because we possess the Spirit, and the nobility of the task that has been given to us, just the sheer grace that we — in all of our weaknesses and deficiencies — will be called to this task, to care for the people of God purchased by the blood of Christ.

Mark Prater:

Well, I could go on and on. But I sit here in my office this morning on Saturday, with fresh eagerness and zeal for the task, as I'm working on a sermon — actually, right before we started recording. Jeff is just such a gift to us. And really, yes, as you said earlier.

And as I said as well — if people are listening, if guys that are checking out the podcast have been to PC class, make it a priority. It will serve you. It will serve you so well if you can. If you've got a team, try to bring your team. I was able to bring my whole team — and a young guy that we're pouring into — because the PC class isn't — I mean, it would be enough just to experience what we've been describing. But then around that, there's fellowship and brotherhood and meals shared together and encouragement and laughter and everything that we've come to know and thank God for in our family of churches.

So make it a priority if you can, to come. We try to go once a year. And I've never been disappointed, in all the years that I've been going since I graduated back in 2012. So there's starting to be some distance between that original experience. But the PC remains a valuable tool for us — not just to send men to train, but also to receive continuing training as well.

Benjamin Kreps:

So, Mark, it was so good to see you last week. And to spend that precious week with you. I'll always remember it, I believe, by God's grace. And it's good to see you on the podcast. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Thank you all for checking out the podcast, and we'll see you here next week, Lord willing. Bye for now.